View Full Version : the next big thing in street photography?
back alley
02-07-2011, 21:06
seems like the perfect camera for about 90% or more of what a street shooter needs/wants.
small, quiet & quick, classic looking, 35mm fov...
now, where do i get 1200 smackers?
now, where do i get 1200 smackers?
Bye-bye RD1's ??? :angel:
It would seem that way wouldn't it. It seems to have pretty well everything that the hard core street shooter wants in a camera that comes in at a sixth of the price of an M9 ... with no lens!
back alley
02-07-2011, 21:12
Bye-bye RD1's ??? :angel:
no, i don't see myself selling them...but maybe my g1 and 20/1.7...
the x100 would be great as an everyday camera and a weekend tagalong with the rd1, or something small and light for those lazy afternoons...
back alley
02-07-2011, 21:29
i might sell a lens too...
lots of time to obsess...
fotomeow
02-07-2011, 21:42
it looks like a great shooter for a 35mm angle lens.
I have been using my M8 with CV 28/1.9 to fill the 35mm slot, along with the RD1s with the 50 "lux to round of the 75mm slot. (for a 35mm/75mm combo).
I could use the x100 for the 35mm slot, and use the M8 with CV 15mm to get a wider angle at 20mm, for a trio of choices: 20mm, 35mm, and 75 mm ....... let the dreams continue....
Yeah... perfect for street. Seems like a homerun for sure.
It would seem that way wouldn't it. It seems to have pretty well everything that the hard core street shooter wants in a camera that comes in at a sixth of the price of an M9 ... with no lens!
hmmm some Nikon RF's for sale....
It's hard! Dumb good and trusty +50 year old cameras for a shinning new kid on the block.. just because the emotional can not cope with the it...
And then it will fell short of expectations (happens all the time right?!)... but drolling like a mad man...
Well, a Man got to do what a Man got to do.... resist (his own) temptation .... or not..... :angel: :bang:
Have any of the testers done any street stuff with it, apart from taking pictures of empty streets that is?
jsrockit
02-08-2011, 05:14
I think it comes down to true AF performance or how well the manual focus is implemented as to if it will be a great digital street camera. I'm excited... I wish I could pre-order in the US at somewhere outside of the NYC area.
videogamemaker
02-08-2011, 05:35
I think it comes down to true AF performance or how well the manual focus is implemented as to if it will be a great digital street camera. I'm excited... I wish I could pre-order in the US at somewhere outside of the NYC area.
You can. Precision camera, one of the RFF sponsors is doing pre orders with and without a deposit.
I just hope that, when on manual focus ,the lens will stay focussed and not have to pop into position, take the shot, then pop back.
jsrockit
02-08-2011, 06:15
You can. Precision camera, one of the RFF sponsors is doing pre orders with and without a deposit.
Damn... they don't show up in google when looking where to buy an X100. I signed up for no deposit version since that was the only one they'd let you do online.
tapesonthefloor
02-08-2011, 09:32
I just hope that, when on manual focus ,the lens will stay focussed and not have to pop into position, take the shot, then pop back.
This is a really good question. Skipping the time spent moving the lens into place is one of the major benefits of using MF on an AF camera. When this thing is in MF mode, I expect the shutter response to be basically instant.
shadowfox
02-08-2011, 10:11
They got you too, Joe?
videogamemaker
02-08-2011, 10:15
This is a really good question. Skipping the time spent moving the lens into place is one of the major benefits of using MF on an AF camera. When this thing is in MF mode, I expect the shutter response to be basically instant.
They say in the brochure that if in OVF mode, shutter lag is .1 seconds. I doubt very seriously that if in MF mode the lens will need to move, why would it?
back alley
02-08-2011, 11:07
They got you too, Joe?
perhaps...it really seems like an ideal modern street camera.
jsrockit
02-08-2011, 11:23
It sure does look ideal... how are they going to f it up? It is inevitable isn't it?
tapesonthefloor
02-08-2011, 11:45
They say in the brochure that if in OVF mode, shutter lag is .1 seconds. I doubt very seriously that if in MF mode the lens will need to move, why would it?
I think larky was originally worried that the lens might have a "resting" position, and that the lens would only narrow down to the selected focus point once the shutter is triggered.
But if that was the case you wouldn't see the effects of your focusing in the EVF, and that's insane, so I withdraw my question. :D
perhaps...it really seems like an ideal modern street camera.
I've been thinking the same way.
Pickett Wilson
02-08-2011, 12:25
And, besides. As the promotional video says:
"X100...the Professionals Choice."
Who wouldn't want to be a Pro? ;)
Frank Version Two
02-08-2011, 12:30
I might sell the G1/20mm but I might keep it around for longer manual focus lenses. Or just use my wife's Nikon dslr when I need it.
I like the G1 a lot but the Fuji promises several stops of high ISO goodness and most likely better dynamic range... If Pany had introduced a nice, fast AF portrait lens I'd be locked in and might even upgrade to the GH2 or next G3, but otherwise the X100 makes the (nice) G1/20mm package redundant and a lot easier to rationalize unloading.
$400 for a G1/20mm in March I fear.... peanuts for what it can do too, so maybe keep it for backup for a while longer?
Juan Valdenebro
02-08-2011, 12:32
The camera seems great for street. If its AF works well and it's easy to be sure about the focused point, it can be one of the best tools for color right now. I'd get one because my only other digital camera is a lot bigger.
Cheers,
Juan
back alley
02-08-2011, 12:39
I might sell the G1/20mm but I might keep it around for longer manual focus lenses. Or just use my wife's Nikon dslr when I need it.
I like the G1 a lot but the Fuji promises several stops of high ISO goodness and most likely better dynamic range... If Pany had introduced a nice, fast AF portrait lens I'd be locked in and might even upgrade to the GH2 or next G3, but otherwise the X100 makes the (nice) G1/20mm package redundant and a lot easier to rationalize unloading.
$400 for a G1/20mm in March I fear.... peanuts for what it can do too, so maybe keep it for backup for a while longer?
i use the same kit mostly for lazy shooting and taking shots of the rd1. i don't really need it and having the x100 would make it a bit redundent. i think the g1 is a great kit but i could live without it.
They say in the brochure that if in OVF mode, shutter lag is .1 seconds. I doubt very seriously that if in MF mode the lens will need to move, why would it?
This is also my worry (probably unsubstantiated, but I've been burned before with the Nikon 35ti and a Contax G). Trying to work out what the lens does in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLCUccfH1U&feature=player_embedded), it seems that it goes back and forth for no reason. It does it very quickly but still, why cant it go straight to the focus distance and stay there, like a Hexar AF would do for example? I hope this doesnt indicate that it will need to do the same even when manually prefocused. Probably not, we'll find out when we get in our hands. I've preordered :)
videogamemaker
02-08-2011, 13:39
This is also my worry (probably unsubstantiated, but I've been burned before with the Nikon 35ti and a Contax G). Trying to work out what the lens does in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLCUccfH1U&feature=player_embedded), it seems that it goes back and forth for no reason. It does it very quickly but still, why cant it go straight to the focus distance and stay there, like a Hexar AF would do for example? I hope this doesnt indicate that it will need to do the same even when manually prefocused. Probably not, we'll find out when we get in our hands. I've preordered :)
To me, that looks like it's autofocusing (sounds like there is a beep after it's done moving, AF confirm). Which is what makes me so excited, because that's nice and fast for contrast based AF. There is a video by the fujiguys as well, that shows no lens movement, just aperture engagement then shutter.
out of curiosity, have you seen a hexar af autofocus?
videogamemaker
02-08-2011, 13:49
Yes, back when I was researching cameras that might have inspired the X100, but I went and watched a youtube of it again to refresh my memory. I'm assuming it doesn't do that lens movement when AF is turned off? (can it be turned off?)
That said, never in person, why do you ask?
Mine is supposed to arrive 2nd week of March here in NZ. It seems like it will be the perfect everyday carry around camera for me.
just wanted to make sure you know what I'm benchmarking against :)
I think we have different priorities, for you AF speed is important which is fine. For me not so, for me it is way more important for the AF not to hunt under any circumstances (ie low light), because slow AF is predictable and therefore I can anticipate it and provide adequate time for it to focus, whereas hunting is undpredictable and therefore it costs me photos. It is also extremely important for AF not to stand in the way of MF, ie when I focus or prefocus and I press the shutter the lens must not move at all under any circumstances (I'm quite confident the x100 lens will not, just not 100% sure yet)
videogamemaker
02-08-2011, 14:00
just wanted to make sure you know what I'm benchmarking against :)
I think we have different priorities, for you AF speed is important which is fine. For me not so, for me it is way more important for the AF not to hunt under any circumstances (ie low light), because slow AF is predictable and therefore I can anticipate it and provide adequate time for it to focus, whereas hunting is undpredictable and therefore it costs me photos. It is also extremely important for AF not to stand in the way of MF, ie when I focus or prefocus and I press the shutter the lens must not move at all under any circumstances (I'm quite confident the x100 lens will not, just not 100% sure yet)
I think we're on the same page. I want to be able to manually focus when appropriate and not have the lens hunt, I was just saying that is what I think the lens movement in that video represents, AF hunting, and that were it in MF mode, you wouldn't have to wait at all for that.
(but I do want fast AF also) :p
Bob Michaels
02-08-2011, 14:06
It appears that "the next big thing in street photography" is not about street photography at all. It is about cameras to be used for street photography.
Does anyone else find there is a difference in "photography" and "cameras"? Or, am I just in the wrong place?
Joe: you could spend the US 1200 for a week somewhere nice and do "street" with your RD1 ... just saying. :angel:
It appears that "the next big thing in street photography" is not about street photography at all. It is about cameras to be used for street photography.
Does anyone else find there is a difference in "photography" and "cameras"? Or, am I just in the wrong place?
I think Bob makes a valid point here ... the emphasis on street photography surrounding this camera is a little disturbing at times.
It's a digital camera with a 35mm field of view, auto focus and pleasing styling before it's anything else.
Bob Michaels
02-08-2011, 14:51
I guess I am in the wrong place as I have felt for many decades that the limits on my photography were my own talents and not those of the tools I had to work with.
monochromejrnl
02-08-2011, 14:54
It appears that "the next big thing in street photography" is not about street photography at all. It is about cameras to be used for street photography.
Does anyone else find there is a difference in "photography" and "cameras"? Or, am I just in the wrong place?
sadly, you probably in the wrong place if you're more interested in photography than cameras
it's amazing how so many RFF'ers are devoting to this one camera (despite a similar array of RFF'ers lamenting the Fuji's overwhelming marketing approach for this camera)... if nothing else - Fuji has succeeded in *****s in drawing attention to the X100
Given the price point, I suspect half the early adopters will love the camera and the other half will be disappointed when they realize this 'jesus camera' isn't going to help them make better images.
back alley
02-08-2011, 15:07
Joe: you could spend the US 1200 for a week somewhere nice and do "street" with your RD1 ... just saying. :angel:
this is true...
back alley
02-08-2011, 15:09
I think Bob makes a valid point here ... the emphasis on street photography surrounding this camera is a little disturbing at times.
It's a digital camera with a 35mm field of view, auto focus and pleasing styling before it's anything else.
my main area of interest when it comes to photography is 'street shooting'...whatever that is...so naturally for me, any camera i use will be viewed from that specific viewpoint.
There's some misunderstanding. ;) :
The thread title should read 'The next big thing for street photography' instead of 'The next big thing in street photography'.
We're clearly not talking about trends in street photography, just about tools for street photography.
Actually, I don't expect to shoot better pictures using this camera. Rather, I expect to find a faster route to image files (dig. camera instead of shooting film, spending half a night processing and then spending half an evening scanning).
I am intrigued about this camera, as it promises the usability and user interface of an analog camera, while delivering digital image files. For someone who uses a hybrid/digital workflow for his postprocessing, this isn't trivial at all. I enjoy shooting a lot more than standing in my bathroom, shaking tanks to the rhythm of a timer clock and stuffing film strips into a slow scanner that makes odd noises and seems to take forever....
Juan Valdenebro
02-08-2011, 15:34
I think its AF will define the camera's future... For manual focus it's way below RD1 and Ms, but for AF, if it informs and gives security to the shooter, it could be great for low light color and for family/fun snaps. With a common AF, it would be just a common digicamera.
Cheers,
Juan
Canadian Price for X100 Accessories ...
http://www.henrys.ca/search/fuji%20x100.aspx/1/80000010%5eFUJI
"Actually, I don't expect to shoot better pictures using this camera. Rather, I expect to find a faster route to image files (dig. camera instead of shooting film, spending half a night processing and then spending half an evening scanning).
I am intrigued about this camera, as it promises the usability and user interface of an analog camera, while delivering digital image files. For someone who uses a hybrid/digital workflow for his postprocessing, this isn't trivial at all. I enjoy shooting a lot more than standing in my bathroom, shaking tanks to the rhythm of a timer clock and stuffing film strips into a slow scanner that makes odd noises and seems to take forever...."
Exactly.
cidereye
02-09-2011, 00:04
It appears that "the next big thing in street photography" is not about street photography at all. It is about cameras to be used for street photography.
Does anyone else find there is a difference in "photography" and "cameras"? Or, am I just in the wrong place?
No, I agree with you Bob. I know this is considered a "gear forum" but surely the major focus is on how gear can be used.
I'll be out in a bit at a local street market using a Rolleicord for "street" photography and don't for one minute envisage having any problems whatsoever as compared to a small Fuji X100 or my usual Leica for that matter.
So many things are in the mind, it's not what you use but *how* you use it as you indicate. I'm not saying that smaller cameras do not carry a size benefit at times but that it's not the be all and end all that many might consider it to be.
gekopaca
02-09-2011, 00:13
seems like the perfect camera for about 90% or more of what a street shooter needs/wants.
small, quiet & quick, classic looking, 35mm fov...
I would prefer a black paint and a little bit wider lens…:rolleyes:
Juan Valdenebro
02-09-2011, 02:09
They needed the silver look first to make classic Leica users (and others too) want to buy it, but I'd bet they know lots of people will fall in love with a future black version, so we might get it...
The good thing is, no matter what this camera can finally offer, it might be the starter of a new major brands race in cameras aimed to traditionally controlled compact digital cameras with superb lens/sensor matching, and that's good news to everyone. I can imagine lots of nice things coming in the next 2 years.
Cheers,
Juan
jsrockit
02-09-2011, 03:48
I guess I am in the wrong place as I have felt for many decades that the limits on my photography were my own talents and not those of the tools I had to work with.
I get what you are saying...but as someone who loves actually making photos with many cameras, I still get what the OP was getting at. It does seem like a very comfortable digital tool for traditional street photography i.e. the stereotypical Leica style. For film users, this seems ridiculous. However, for those of us who love digital, hate DSLRs, and want a fast, small, relatively low priced camera, the X100 appears to do the trick. That said, there is no reason we cannot talk about actual photography and / or gear at the same time at RFF. I truly believe they are both pieces to the same puzzle.
Regarding the AF on the X100, it's going to have to be stellar in order to outperform that of the Lumix G1 with 14-45 lens, or even the 20-1.7 pancake; with which I've spent the last two years doing street photography.
I would also say that, through my recent digital street photography experience, I really love using a well-designed EVF (like that on the G1), and am not certain if I'd ever really enjoy "going back" to an optical VF; I've learned to demand accurate framing in my images (I prefer not to crop) and any parallax error in an optical VF I find unacceptable.
So, I'm watching the X100 developments with interest, but am not ready to ditch (or supplant) u4/3 until I see the X100 offer distinct advantages, without losing the things I already like about u4/3.
~Joe
srtiwari
02-09-2011, 06:24
Regarding the AF on the X100, it's going to have to be stellar in order to outperform that of the Lumix G1 with 14-45 lens, or even the 20-1.7 pancake; with which I've spent the last two years doing street photography.
I would also say that, through my recent digital street photography experience, I really love using a well-designed EVF (like that on the G1), and am not certain if I'd ever really enjoy "going back" to an optical VF; I've learned to demand accurate framing in my images (I prefer not to crop) and any parallax error in an optical VF I find unacceptable.
So, I'm watching the X100 developments with interest, but am not ready to ditch (or supplant) u4/3 until I see the X100 offer distinct advantages, without losing the things I already like about u4/3.
~Joe
I do own and use the G1, and am not too happy with the IQ. Any camera with the same AF/shutter lag, and better IQ will get my money. Now if only I could change lenses on this one...:(
shadowfox
02-09-2011, 06:56
perhaps...it really seems like an ideal modern street camera.
For those who just love 35mm focal length, and are comfortable with one-body-one-lens method, yes.
(That includes me, by the way).
But we had numerous discussions about favorite focal length here on RFF, and as usual none of us can even close to agree on one.
Don't even get me started on how polarized the 'one-lens-one-body' argument is around here.
So how come a fixed lens camera suddenly becomes "ideal" ??
PS: Joe, this is for discussion and thought, I'm not harping on you specifically :)
back alley
02-09-2011, 07:43
'ideal' for most of my needs...certainly would not satisfy my 'wide' wantings.
i doubt that the x100 would ever become my only camera...i'm not really a one camera/one lens guy.
but for outings with no set agenda or when wanting the discipline of carrying only one lens.
now, with all that being said...i am starting to wonder how it might be 'better' than my rd1 and favourite 40, the sonnar.
i have started to carry only that combo on my extra long gordy strap and am quite liking it.
Regarding the AF on the X100, it's going to have to be stellar in order to outperform that of the Lumix G1 with 14-45 lens, or even the 20-1.7 pancake;
Personally, I want it to be significantly better.
With the proviso that I probably notice more mis-focused shot on digital than I would on film, I'd say the GF1 is worse than my old Olympus Stylus (let alone my Hexar AF). For instance, this winter, it proved pretty much incapable of focusing on, say, frosty twigs against the snow.
I've also spent a fair bit of time recently processing a couple of friends' 5D photos.. and realised my GF1 is closer to G9 quality than the 5D.
SO i am hoping the Fuju will have good enough autofocus and good-enough IQ. I'm not expecting a panacea, though.
willie_901
02-09-2011, 08:06
I do own and use the G1, and am not too happy with the IQ. Any camera with the same AF/shutter lag, and better IQ will get my money. Now if only I could change lenses on this one...:(
I carefully compared (in LR 3.3) my ISO 200 RAW shots with a G1-20/1.7 with the full-sized X-100 jpegs. It is clear to me the X100 IQ is significantly superior to the LUMIX's. The image edges are very different. Also the X100 bokeh is rather nice. I noticed the X100's low level of longitudinal CA wide open is far superior than most of the Nikkor glass I have used. This includes the 85/1.8 AF-D, the 85/1.4 G, the 50/1.4G and other fast Nikkors. When I abused the Fill Slider in LR, the X100 shadow areas held up as well compared to what I experience in my D300 and D700 RAW images at ISO 200. This comparison is rather subjective as I'm comparing a jpeg to a RAW file and different images. Still, the X100 files did well in my qualitative and subjective over-use-of-the-Fill-Slider test, especially compared to the LUMIX G1 at ISO 200.
We'll see if these observations stand as more X100 images become available.
Fuji official Samples on this thread...
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101508
nightfly
02-09-2011, 08:29
Sorry if this has been discussed but can anyone clarify what this means (from the X100 website):
"With manual focus selected, focusing is achieved using the focus ring around the lens barrel. A distance indication bar enables you to pre-focus if required, or you can simply use the electronic viewfinder to focus accurately. There is, however, no rangefinder focusing capability."
Does anyone know where this "distance indication bar" is located? On the lens? In the view finder? On the camera?
This is the sort of thing that actually matters to me as it's how I use my Leica most often.
tom.w.bn
02-09-2011, 08:33
Sorry if this has been discussed but can anyone clarify what this means (from the X100 website):
"With manual focus selected, focusing is achieved using the focus ring around the lens barrel. A distance indication bar enables you to pre-focus if required, or you can simply use the electronic viewfinder to focus accurately. There is, however, no rangefinder focusing capability."
Does anyone know where this "distance indication bar" is located? On the lens? In the view finder? On the camera?
This is the sort of thing that actually matters to me as it's how I use my Leica most often.
Look at the examples http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101183
Should be visible in the viewfinder and on the back-screen.
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