View Full Version : Why It's Good To Get Up, Go Outside, Take Some Photos And . . .
wander into the local camera shop, where, luckily, there was a Fuji sales rep hanging out showing all my local camera shop sales dudes a working X100 prototype.
Being a regular in that shop, I was the only customer in there (due to the time of day) and, as such, got to fondle/hold/test out - the camera.
In an attempt to be brief, here's what I noted:
The X100 is a lot bigger than what I thought it would be - it's about 2/3 the length of my M7 (which I had with me) and about the same thickness. I didn't check the height
The X100 is a lot lighter than I thought it would be - it seemed really light like it didn't contain a lot of metal in the structure - still it didn't feel "overly" light either
The Hybrid EVF is pretty awesome - played with that and flipped the switch on the front of the camera to rotate through the images, it's VERY cool
The "Viewfinder" in general is good - It seemed clear, decent and sizeable enough to keep those of you who long for viewfinders on these digtals happy :)
The ergonomics seem to be pretty good imho - a lot better than the ergonomics on the panaosnic cameras but not as "easy" as the Ricoh GRD series - but still, very very good in my hands.
The price is still a bit much - $1200 CDN is what i was told by the Fuji rep - don't know if that's street or retail but still.. a bit pricey (even if he said it's about a 1/4 of the M7's price :D )
An interchangeable lens version may be in the future - I mumbled something to the rep about people whining about the lack of interchangeable lenses and he said "this is the first step but we'll look at that in the future" (I'm sure this is OLD news to most)
I was surprised by my luck and pleased I got to play with something all of you are salivating over... :)
Cheers,
Dave
where you able to snap photo's and pixel peep? If so, how does the lens characteristics compare to what you usually make pictures with?
PatrickT
02-03-2011, 10:51
You lucky SOB! :p
What I'm curious about is focus speed, shutter release delay, shutter noise, etc. Any thoughts on those?
@Fireboy - There was no card in the camera and it appears the battery was, well, "well used" *LOL* - it's pre production and the rep made sure he stated that over and over and over *LOL* - the EVF was working and so was the rear LCD - both looked good but the rep said these were not the 1.1 million pixels that the production model would eventually be. I did not get a chance to look at any images - don't know if the sales guys at the store (Downtown Camera) did either though - seeing as how it's a pre-production camera, I bet there's some sort of "rules" surrounding that for the store.
@PatrickT - good question !! I did get to see focus speed in action based on some of the sales guys using it as well.. it's fairly quick - not DSLR quick but probably as fast or faster than my Olympus EP-2 - remember this was in good light not in low light. Shutter noise was almost non-existent from what I heard. Probably a wee bit quieter than my M7 with less of a "click" (obviously) :)
Cheers,
Dave
So we still do not know for sure if this is really a camera or a fancy case for the iPhone?
Fred,
Well, based on what I felt and played with - it's not an iPhone case :D
That said, I found it awfully light and a lot bigger than I had anticipated - but that's me :)
Cheers,
Dave
monochromejrnl
02-03-2011, 11:19
Fred,
Well, based on what I felt and played with - it's not an iPhone case :D
That said, I found it awfully light and a lot bigger than I had anticipated - but that's me :)
Cheers,
Dave
Dave - how would you say the OVF compares to a M or Japanese fixed lens VF? more like the later or the former?
From photos online, it seems to me that OVF seems cluttered with all the projected information - what is your impression?
Are you able to 'turn off' the projected details selectively or completely?
Cheers,
Ken
Ken - The OVF is definitely more like a japanese fixed lens than an M. The "frame line" reminds me a lot of any of the japanese fixed lens RFs - I think it's a lot like (in a way) a Konica Auto S2. I didn't note a lot of "junk" when I flipped away from the EVF - there still was some data showing up at the bottom but not as much as there was with the full on EVF in effect.
I am unsure about selectively turning off some of the information though as I never thought to ask or try it.
Cheers,
Dave
Poor Dave! You've set yourself up to be pestered with questions for about a week! :D
Poor Dave! You've set yourself up to be pestered with questions for about a week! :D
I am a giver Kev :)
I don't mind - I know the camera has got a lot of people interested in it and people want to know about it - I can only tell what I know from my personal experience.. :)
It's the least I can do for those on the forum who've offered up so much advice/info to me over the years :D
Cheers,
Dave
You've actually been touched by an x100. You're like a demi-god, man!
;)
ItsReallyDarren
02-03-2011, 12:36
Did you bring to the rep's attention how much we want a black paint version along with interchangeable lenses? Perhaps a limited edition Titanium finish? :D
back alley
02-03-2011, 12:42
does the finish look like it would scratch easily?
(sorry, just could not resist...)
Andy Kibber
02-03-2011, 12:59
I love it. While others are scouring the internet for information about the X100, you leave the comfort of your computer chair and actually get to touch one (gasp).
The moral of the story? Good things happen when you leave the house.
@Joe - The finish is a "matte" type finish - it looks like there's potential for scratching if something sharp is against it - you know, like, say a set of keys.
@Darren - I never mentioned a black paint version but I did mention the interchangeable lenses - I would think the next or perhaps third iteration of the camera will have that
@Frank - No.. I'm just a man... maybe a man who's ahead of my time but yes.. just a man *LOL*
Cheers,
Dave
jsrockit
02-03-2011, 13:21
Thanks for the info. Did they say it was on schedule to be released in March?
videogamemaker
02-03-2011, 13:24
Thanks for the info. Did they say it was on schedule to be released in March?
Double both of these. Thanks and did they mention release date? :-)
The moral of the story? Good things happen when you leave the house.
But if I leave the house I might miss my package from B&H! :D
You didn't happen to see Elvis leaving as you arrived did you?
hehe..
@jsrockit and @videogamemaker - I didn't get a chance to ask that question (actually it slipped my mind because I'm not that interested in the camera AND I was shocked that I actually was able to see one "in the flesh") - I would assume that it must be on schedule though because the Fuji rep said he'd seen a "production model" in Japan and Germany and the 1.1 Million Pixel display (I think he said that number applied to the EVF as well) would blow everyone away - He did also throw around the "B" word (bokeh) with respect to the lens @ f2 - he said that the bokeh was beautiful.. we'll see won't we...
@Keith - no.. no I did not Keith.. at that point in time, I was told "Elvis has left the building..." ;)
Dave
You mentioned "light." Will it float?
Forget float. Will it blend?
Forget float. Will it blend?
Probably.... but I didn't have a good blender on hand to try it out :)
Dave
Well, well....
It is good that there are actual facsimiles of the little guy floating around.
Now to just get them in the hands of some photographers. That will be a great day.
But if I leave the house I might miss my package from B&H! :D
Oh, like packages are being delivered in CT. FedEx is holding a box of mine from KEH hostage because there is too much snow on the ground. Are you telling me that life in the quiet corner hasn't stopped because it has been snowing out?
farlymac
02-03-2011, 15:59
Dave, next time you run into the Fuji rep, tell him a dummy film advance would be great for all us old farts who would probably tweak a muscle trying to advance the 'film'. You know the type. We still set the index on our Nikons.
PF
tapesonthefloor
02-03-2011, 16:50
I'm in that shop THREE TIMES A WEEK, and this is the ONE DAY I decide to walk north on lunch instead of south towards Queen.
Or, to put it another way, I think I might hate you.
willie_901
02-03-2011, 16:58
Thanks Dave for sharing your impressions. I really appreciate it.
Nikon Bob
02-03-2011, 16:59
You mentioned "light." Will it float?
That would be disappointing, I thought it was supposed to be able to walk on water.
Bob
@Nicholas - Sorry :) I am usually in there fairly often but I had an inkling to walk that way around 1:45pm and blammo - there was the camera with three of the sales guys, Harry, and the Fuji rep(s) all ooing and ahhing over the camera. I walked over, said my hellos to the guys (the reps didn't know me from any other shmoe) and immediately said "Can I touch it?" - Kevin, who was holding the camera at the time looked at the rep and said "I don't know.. can he?" The rep nodded and smiled and said "Sure.." then continued to ramble on about how it was a working prototype... :) Truly something I've never had an opportunity to do before - it did make me feel a bit "special" since there's been so much talk (hype?) about the camera.
@farlymac - that would have been a nice touch wouldn't it? :)
@Bob - heheh... I heard it also holds the cure for many a disease :D
@Rover - it was interesting - this photographer was interested but still wouldn't "bite" just yet. One of the other sales guys said he was disappointed because he was so hoping it would have had a REAL rangefinder in it - the rep first didn't exactly know what he was talking about but then realized and said "Oh, ya.. no... we couldn't do that and have auto/manual focus"
Oh.. which reminds me... although probably old news.... the rep had said it was "Focus by wire" (whatever that means) for the manual focus.
Cheers,
Dave
Would you say X100 weighs the same as a Canon G11/12?
According to fujiguys the weight is approximative 400-450g and a G11/12 is 400.
Mackinaw
02-03-2011, 17:18
You should have really raised a ruckus by asking the Fuji guy why they discontinued Neopan 1600.
Jim B.
@GSNFan - as I have never played with the G11/12 I couldn't tell you - the camera, for its size, just felt "light" to me - I guess I expected some "heft" because it just looks like it SHOULD be heavier - they make it to look like a retro all steel/metal camera but clearly it's not. The focus ring and aperture ring on the lens felt "plastic" for the lack of better wording.
@Jim B - heheheheh... I never thought of that - I should have asked him "Why do all your (Fuji's) pro films like NPH, NPZ and NPC seem to cheat to the green end while Kodak's seem to cheat to the red end?" :D
Cheers,
Dave
1.1 Million in the EVF and beautiful bokeh, held by the common man for the first time, Whoa! For the first time I think I just saw Elvis flash across the screen.
Dave, thanks for giving us your impression of this camera.
Gary
@GSNFan - as I have never played with the G11/12 I couldn't tell you - the camera, for its size, just felt "light" to me - I guess I expected some "heft" because it just looks like it SHOULD be heavier - they make it to look like a retro all steel/metal camera but clearly it's not. The focus ring and aperture ring on the lens felt "plastic" for the lack of better wording.
Cheers,
Dave
Considering that X100 has no image stabilization I thought Fuji would make the X100 slightly hefty, but I guess thats is not the case.
Thanks for the info.
keepright
02-03-2011, 17:44
wander into the local camera shop, where, luckily, there was a Fuji sales rep hanging out showing all my local camera shop sales dudes a working X100 prototype.
My quick impressions:
http://photo.matthewpiers.com/photos/1176882246_nbxwM-L.jpg
http://photo.matthewpiers.com/photos/1176882177_bH7Qv-L.jpg
This is a preproduction model, so there were parts that weren't fully up to spec, but the hybrid viewfinder worked very nicely with a red overlay to show shooting information. The eyepiece has a proximity sensor to auto-switch from the VF to LCD as appropriate. Looking through the optical viewfinder without seeing a rangefinder patch was very disconcerting.
The build is very nice, feeling more solid than the GF1, but nowhere near the machined metal casing of the Leica X1. There's a very subtle hand grip, mild but effective, on the front of the camera. The black material that wraps around it is slightly yielding and very nice to hold. The lens is quite small, and the balance is entirely within the body.
The camera is essentially silent in operation. Its shutter is about the same volume as a compact P&S. It's just a quiet little 'snick' that makes my GH1 sound like a firecracker.
In short: the people who want to like this camera are going to have plenty of reasons to keep liking it, while those who don't 'get it' will continue to not understand what the big deal is.
My quick impressions:
http://photo.matthewpiers.com/photos/1176882246_nbxwM-L.jpg
http://photo.matthewpiers.com/photos/1176882177_bH7Qv-L.jpg
This is a preproduction model, so there were parts that weren't fully up to spec, but the hybrid viewfinder worked very nicely with a red overlay to show shooting information. The eyepiece has a proximity sensor to auto-switch from the VF to LCD as appropriate. Looking through the optical viewfinder without seeing a rangefinder patch was very disconcerting.
The build is very nice, feeling more solid than the GF1, but nowhere near the machined metal casing of the Leica X1. There's a very subtle hand grip, mild but effective, on the front of the camera. The black material that wraps around it is slightly yielding and very nice to hold. The lens is quite small, and the balance is entirely within the body.
The camera is essentially silent in operation. Its shutter is about the same volume as a compact P&S. It's just a quiet little 'snick' that makes my GH1 sound like a firecracker.
In short: the people who want to like this camera are going to have plenty of reasons to keep liking it, while those who don't 'get it' will continue to not understand what the big deal is.
Awesome impressions - thanks! Do you have any opinion on the AF performance?
Dave and Matthew - thanks very much for your impressions. This is looking better and better. I'm glad it's a little smaller and a little lighter than an M.
skibeerr
02-03-2011, 23:21
Funny thing with all the hype around the x100 is that Fuji Belgium is unaware of it's existence. Only one standard press release hidden somewhere.
www.fuji.be
So I am on the list at Robert white.
W
videogamemaker
02-04-2011, 01:38
The build is very nice, feeling more solid than the GF1, but nowhere near the machined metal casing of the Leica X1.
Thanks for the photos and your impression, but the quoted sentence seems odd when DPreview had this to say: The build quality is absolutely superb... ....but overall the X100 gives a rare impression of solidity. Indeed of all current digital cameras, arguably only the Leica M9 can challenge the X100 for its sheer build quality and beauty as an object.
Is the X1 more solid than the M9? Why does DPreview (who has handled tons of cameras, including the x1 and m9) think it's so solid and well made, but you say it's "nowhere near" the x1?
Would you say X100 weighs the same as a Canon G11/12?
According to fujiguys the weight is approximative 400-450g and a G11/12 is 400.
There is no "according to". There are now three different sources, two with photos (http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/424/474/html/064.jpg.html), showing it's 440-450 depending on if the cap is included. Fujiguys, the norwegian (who privately emailed me a photo of it on a scale) and this photo from the japanese review.
jsrockit
02-04-2011, 05:05
Is the X1 more solid than the M9? Why does DPreview (who has handled tons of cameras, including the x1 and m9) think it's so solid and well made, but you say it's "nowhere near" the x1?
Relax...the guy just gave his opinion. The X1 does feel nice in your hand, so I can understand. Show some restraint... the guy did us a favor by taking a real photo of it next to a well known (to us anyway) camera.
videogamemaker
02-04-2011, 05:13
Relax...the guy just gave his opinion. The X1 does feel nice in your hand, so I can understand. Show some restraint... the guy did us a favor buy taking a real photo of it next to a well known (to us anyway) camera.
I just wanted elaboration, I'm not attacking him. I certainly don't have one to correct him, I just want to know why there are two apposing viewpoints on the same product that seem so diametric. Maybe he could explain further why he feels that way. And I did say thanks, I am very appreciative of these two guys giving their hands on impressions.
I was looking around the cameras I have to find a size comparison and the Canon Canonet GIII QL17 is somewhat comparable to the x100.
Canonet - 120 x 75 x 60 mm, 620 g
x100 - 126 x 74 x 54 mm, ~440g
x100 is 6mm wider, a mm shorter, and 6mm thinner.
As an FYI: I went back to my local store today and asked some pertinent questions of the staff who had more time with the camera than I did.
Is the release date still March? - Nope... it's been pushed back to sometime in mid/end of April, due to, according to Fuji "unexpected demand"
Is $1200 Retail or Street price? - Retail BUT apparently Fuji has informed retailers they cannot discount this camera initially. Yep.. what you see on the price tag is what you're going to pay.
Did you get a chance to take any photos with the camera and can I see them? - Nope - what was online (apparently they're gone now) is all that existed. The camera they had, in question though, did have 2200 shots on the "counter" according to one of the store staff.
Cheers,
Dave
jsrockit
02-04-2011, 10:32
Thanks for the bad news dcsang. I'm just wondering how they are judging demand for a camera that doesn't have many stores accepting pre-orders. Perhaps Japan is a different story?
I'm all for pushing back the release date if they plan to have enough supply to fulfill demand upon release. I'm sick of playing the waiting game after paying my money.
I went back to my local store today and asked some pertinent questions of the staff who had more time with the camera than I did.
Is the release date still March? - Nope... it's been pushed back to sometime in mid/end of April, due to, according to Fuji "unexpected demand"
Is $1200 Retail or Street price? - Retail BUT apparently Fuji has informed retailers they cannot discount this camera initially. Yep.. what you see on the price tag is what you're going to pay.Interesting - this doesn't match with what I found out today:
I went to Munich's largest camera store (Foto Video Sauter) today to find out about how FujiFilm is going to introduce the X100 in Germany. Fuji apparently has not done any retailer previews in Germany, the salespeople at Sauter's have not yet had the X100 in their hands. The responsible department manager had listened in to my conversation with a salesman, and later approached me to give me further information about how the camera will be brought to the market in Germany:
In the first week of March, FujiFilm will make a promotional tour through various German cities, demoing the camera to prospective customers. So, call up your trusted retailer and ask for presentation details. You can bet I'll be there!
At the same time, FujiFilm will begin shipping the camera to the stores. The store will not only receive demo cameras in March, it will also have them in deliverable stock! I.e. you'll be able to purchase the camera on the spot and walk home with it (if you decide quickly, I presume).
The purchase price of the camera will be € 998,- including 19% German VAT. I presume this is the manufacturer's suggested retail price, as Sauter's is not known for rock-bottom prices. Rather, this store always aims to be the first to offer new products. Street prices will only develop later.Sounds like good news, doesn't it?
Andy Kibber
02-04-2011, 10:57
My quick impressions:
...
What the? The aperture ring goes the wrong way!
Oh, like packages are being delivered in CT. FedEx is holding a box of mine from KEH hostage because there is too much snow on the ground. Are you telling me that life in the quiet corner hasn't stopped because it has been snowing out?
I must confess my "package" was theoretical. But I think you must be right. My UPS driver stops about halfway up our 330ft. driveway in good weather. I can't imagine what the 5ft. walls of snow lining our drive now would do to his fragile psyche! :p
cpharris
02-04-2011, 11:45
What the? The aperture ring goes the wrong way!
Guess they prefer the Nikon way. At least you can flip the focus ring direction to your preference. Coming from Nikons myself I've been trained in doing things the wrong way :)
keepright
02-04-2011, 12:11
Gavin, I don't have much that I can contribute about the AF performance - I divide cameras into "noticeable and annoying" and "unobtrusive and not annoying". The X100 is definitely in the second category, but I wasn't in a position to really put it through its paces. (and it's also a preproduction unit, so it might not have really mattered.)
Dave;
"…apparently Fuji has informed retailers they cannot discount this camera initially…"
Not to nitpick, because the effect is the same, but Fujifilm can't tell the stores what they can sell the cameras for. However, Fuji can control where the initial allotment of stock goes, so 'preferred retailers' that stick with an MSRP/MAP may get their orders filled first. (And maybe not, who can really say? Warehouses are such difficult things to predict.) On the other hand, some retailers are including 'bonus' items, and others may have unadvertised specials in the store, so it may still be worth looking around even though everyone will be quoting the same price.
videogamemaker, no worries, I didn't feel attacked, and I know the feeling of trying to squeeze every possible nuance of meaning out of inadequate information. I understand that you're trying to evaluate two different sources, and having to balance the credibility of Some Guy On A Forum and the largest camera-review site that Amazon's ever owned. (In my favour, I've never called Live View "a solution looking for a problem.") But I personally don't see a massive yawning chasm between the build quality of the Lecia X1 and the Leica M9, certainly not one big enough to say that my opinion is 'diametrically opposed' to DPreview's. And for that matter, I only said "build quality" while DPreview compared it to the M9's "build quality and beauty as an object". (emphasis added) So if their opinion of the X1's beauty as an object is the same as mine, that would explain the different points of comparison.
And for what it's worth - in my personal, biased, and marginally informed opinion - both the M9 and X1 are superbly built, but the X1's build and function isn't compromised by the unnecessary complications of being a camera. Your milage, as the saying goes, may vary.
......but the rep said these were not the 1.1 million pixels that the production model would eventually be.......
The [Fuji] rep. was wrong.
The X100 uses an Epson EVF panel, which is 800 x 600 pixels @ 12u size [~ 1/5 of the average thickness of human head hair]. This Epson panel displays RGB pixels discretely and sequentially [very fast] which your own brain integrate into colours. Specsmanship translated all that as 800 x 600 x 3 [RGB] = 1.44 million pixels.
See: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09101501epsonhtpspanel.asp
The X100 now, or later, will never have 1.1 million pixels in the EVF.
This EVF panel is also used in the Oly EP's but not in the Pany GF1... [coarser].
1.1.... 1.4... what's 300,000 pixels between friends :D
Basically the Rep said that the EVF is impressive (and even the prototype I saw was) - and really.. let's cut the rep some slack.. he's in sales and not a "techie" per se ;)
Dave
1.1.... 1.4... what's 300,000 pixels between friends :D......
All sales reps I ever know are the same...they don't know much, don't do homework, but talk, talk, and talk some more.
There is a big difference between 480,000 pixels to 1.1 or 1.4 million. Personally, I don't care and ignore their talks anyway. I have seen what the Oly EVP can do and more than impressed. After all, whatever there is beyond human visual acuity does not matter...if there was a difference or not, you can't see it anyway.
[Think about it...if the O/EVF has a 0.5X magnification, then 12u EVF panel pixel size becomes 6u...; humans eyes is said to be able to resolve 1 arc-minute, or 330u at 1m [apparent focal distance], you or I could never see it.]
However, there are EXPERTS in these forums who insist EVF is no good...without ever understanding why or what. They don't understand and won't believe the biggest problems is unmatched refresh frequency to AC, easily seen in florescent lighting. You will never have EVF problems in daylight...another long discourse.
All that doesn't matter between friends...really.
jsrockit
02-05-2011, 05:07
I've been using the Panasonic G2 (I bought for my girlfriend) and I can even handle the EVF on that. As long as it is as good or better, I'm ok... tjough I'll probably prefer the OVF.
Well, 800x600x3(rgb) appears to be 1.4 million dots, not pixels. 1.4 mill dots vs. 1.4 pixels is quite different.
On Feb. 2nd, Fujiguys (Fuji Canada marketing) said the X100 would be released March 18th. Not sure how this stacks up against whatyou heard about it being pushed to April. Hey, I'm okay if the date gets pushed so they can ramp up supply to meet demand. This will mean better prices after the early adopters have bought at full price.
Well, 800x600x3(rgb) appears to be 1.4 million dots, not pixels. 1.4 mill dots vs. 1.4 pixels is quite different.
I [and the aerial imaging industry that I am in] rarely use the term "dots" in describing resolution. In fact, no serious aerial camera uses the Bayer pattern. [The latest is the Zeiss RMK/D with a monolithic 11,200 x 11,700, 7.2u pixel size panchromatic chip...131Mp; colourized by 4 discrete channels (Ir/R/G/B) of colour overlay.]
In general, I think of dots as in half-tone dots that you see all at once.
In the Epson EVF panel, you only see 800 x 600 [480,000] pixels at any one instant of time. Rapid "flashing" of RGB fools your brain into seeing colour...and of course they say 1.4 million dot/pixel, or 1.67 million colours [256 x 256 x 256...8bit RGB]...sounds more impressive. ;)
I've been using the Panasonic G2 (I bought for my girlfriend) and I can even handle the EVF on that. As long as it is as good or better, I'm ok... tjough I'll probably prefer the OVF.
The Pany G1, G2...uses a proprietary EVF panel also of the same resolution as the Epson panel; while the GF1... uses a coarser one in their external EVF and inferior to the Oly EP offerings.
I had the experience of playing with the G1, GF1 and Oly EVF and optical, side by side, one after another in a Tokyo camera super-mart. The optical VF is best in fluorescent lighting, but if you aim the camera to an outdoor scene [no 60Hz AC frequency lighting mismatches], the higher resolution EVF is very, very close. I expect the same comparison within the X100 O/EVF.
ZeissFan
02-05-2011, 07:49
From our description, it sounds like Fuji has a winner on its hands. I wonder if some people will be put off by the light weight, as some people equate weight with quality.
From photos of the camera, I was expecting a smaller camera, something in the neighborhood of an Olympus 35 RC.
willie_901
02-05-2011, 08:13
... I wonder if some people will be put off by the light weight, as some people equate weight with quality.
No doubt–some certainly will.
videogamemaker
02-05-2011, 09:19
From our description, it sounds like Fuji has a winner on its hands. I wonder if some people will be put off by the light weight, as some people equate weight with quality.
From photos of the camera, I was expecting a smaller camera, something in the neighborhood of an Olympus 35 RC.
It is in the neighborhood of the 35RC. The 35rc is 425 grams, the x100 440, and this image uses sizeazy to show them in relation. (pink is 35rc and purple X100)
As for weight, the lighter the better. Heft does make things seem nicer or better made, but after you have decided you like the device, if it's something you have to carry around, every gram less is a blessing. Several people who have had them in their hands say that it feels very solid, has an appropriate heft and felt solidly built.
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