Why always the BBC ??

[jaapv]

Why is it always the BBC that has these great programs? Anybody else see that documentary on Jacques Lowe last night , the photographer that introduced Leica in the White House, thus making the Kennedy's the most intemately documented Presidential family of all time? No wonder I hardly watch our local television!

[TPPhotog]

Sounds like you may be talking about "The World's Most Photographed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/03_march/11/photographed.shtml)" I missed it last night as it was only Kennedy. Last weeks on Marilyn Monroe and 2 or 3 weeks ago on Audrey Hepburn were both amazing :)

[JoNL]

I missed this one. But I saw the features on Marilyn Monroe and Audrey Hepburn in the BBC2 series "The world's most photographed" and they were excellent. I learned, e.g., that Audrey Hepburn's fragile appearance was not at last caused by a hunger period during war time from which she apparently never completely recovered. There is an accompanying exhibition in the National Portrait Galery in London. Unfortunately, the NPG shows wrong opening hours on its webpage (late night opening is on Wednesday not on Thursday and Friday). So I stood in front of closed doors last week when I wanted to see the exhibition :-(

I general, the BBC is truly a class of its own. Way superior to any other public TV I know. Another extremely interesting documentary was shown on Tuesday: "After the war." A very unusual view on the post war period in Germany. You could see that people traded German rangefinder folding cameras for some cigarettes on the black market ...

Even the BBC's own movie productions are worth seeing and easily compete with current cinema material (e.g. The Girl in the Cafe, The State of Play ...). Can't praise enough the BBC.

[bmattock]

Rumpole of the Bailey - people keep telling me it is not a comedy, but it makes me laugh.
Red Dwarf
Thin Blue Line
Blackadder, of course
Are You Being Served?
Waiting for God
Fawlty Towers
Keeping Up Appearances
Bless Me, Father
The Young Ones

I never get to see them anymore - sigh. American TV is a load of horse hockey. I end up watching HGTV and Food Network with my wife, and that's wearing a trifle thin.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[jaapv]

Sounds like you may be talking about "The World's Most Photographed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/03_march/11/photographed.shtml)" I missed it last night as it was only Kennedy. Last weeks on Marilyn Monroe and 2 or 3 weeks ago on Audrey Hepburn were both amazing :)

As a matter of fact I was; it was the first installment I saw, as I'm usually too lazy to look for program listings. I'll certainly be looking for the next ones.
What truly amazes me is that a large number of BBC programs are made by Endemol (yes- the Dutch company that gave the thankful world Big Brother, Idols and similar intellectual gems) and that they reserve the garbage for their home networks.

[sooner]

I always knew American TV was vacuous at best, but after spending a summer in England and watching too much BBC, I came to realize how pervasive the self-censorship is, also. The BBC was awesome, not only for its shows but especially the documentaries and current events programs. I saw footage of American soldiers in Afghanistan, including one where the GI's threatened the BBC film crew if they didn't stop filming, that you just would never see on American TV. To their credit, the BBC kept filming, and the American special forces soldiers didn't carry through on their threat. Most Americans would bristle at the thought we live under heavy "censorship," yet the fact they also don't want to entertain that notion speaks volumes. But the BBC does it too, sort of; BBC America keeps the juicy political stuff off the air, so you only get to watch it in Europe.

[Jon Goodman]

CBS tried to upgrade American TV with programs like "Playhouse 90," but they were expensive to produce, and the American audience was at that time awfully interested in series presentations like "The Fugitive," "Route 66," "Gunsmoke," sitcoms and variety shows. Not that programs like "The Fugitive" were bad...actually they were far superior to a lot of what is on TV today. The problem was a 90 minute drama program simply didn't work for a large part of the viewing public on a weekly basis.

Jon

[bmattock]

I always knew American TV was vacuous at best, but after spending a summer in England and watching too much BBC, I came to realize how pervasive the self-censorship is, also. The BBC was awesome, not only for its shows but especially the documentaries and current events programs. I saw footage of American soldiers in Afghanistan, including one where the GI's threatened the BBC film crew if they didn't stop filming, that you just would never see on American TV. To their credit, the BBC kept filming, and the American special forces soldiers didn't carry through on their threat. Most Americans would bristle at the thought we live under heavy "censorship," yet the fact they also don't want to entertain that notion speaks volumes. But the BBC does it too, sort of; BBC America keeps the juicy political stuff off the air, so you only get to watch it in Europe.

You are absolutely right, but one must be fair. Although it surprised me when I was overseas and discovered that the US does self-censor what the US public sees in the way of news, I also had some friends from the UK over here, and they were amazed at what they didn't get at home in the way of news about the 'Troubles' as they called the Irish situation. They also had no idea that the RUC was categorized as a 'terrorist organization' by the USA and none of their members were allowed entry here. It was actually against the law in the UK to speak of the IRA or Sinn Fein on news media there:

http://www.american.edu/carmel/dh2982a/uk14.html

See:

Northern Ireland and Official Secrets Act

I would say in general your statement was absolutely correct - the US news media tends to self-censor to a greater extent than most Americans know or would believe. At least they have more freedoms to report if they desire to than journalists in other countries, including the UK.

But I mean no attack on anyone's system of reportage or laws governing secrecy, etc. Just pointing out that the US is hardly the worst offender here.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[sooner]

Bill,

You are absolutely right, and this is another area where I admittedly apply a double or higher standard to the US, partly because I'm American and don't want to have my news censored for me, and partly because I buy into all our self-righteous notions of being the best, most free and fair country in the world. But saying we're not the worst offender isn't much of a defense, unless we want to admit we should be no better than anyone else. You hear some people defending Abu Ghraib by saying, "yes, but think about what the Saudis would have done to them." These things travel in predictable business cycles. Some day, when it's popular to self-flagellate and say our mea culpas, you'll see Barbara Walters touring Guantanamo shaking her head in sad disbelief. On that day, I will be at home vomiting.

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Sooner,

You are right: the USA must hold itself to the highest standards of all. It has, in a sense, more to live up to: it is one of the few countries founded on such dreams as human rights and freedom. Others came to such ideas/ideals later.

But increasingly I believe that all countries are more alike than they are different, and that all are increasingly convergent. Many have adopted such American ideals as suited them, while the USA itself has abandoned or at least grievously watered down distressingly many.

I'm slightly surprised at Bill's comments about its being against the law to mention the IRA or Sinn Fein, because I certainly never noticed their absence in the media and indeed it would have been impossible NOT to mention them. I mean, take the Birmingham pub bombing (I used to drink there occasionally). They couldn't say, "There has been a bomb attack but we're not allowed to say who by," could they?

Or given Tony Bliar's mania for secrecy and control, maybe that's what we'll be hearing quite soon...

Cheers,

Roger

[rbiemer]

In my more pessimistic moments I find my self humming the theme song from the movie "Brazil"...
I watch very little TV news at all anymore. I do always have good batteries in my shortwave radio. I try to get at least a couple of different views of the daily news. None are neccessarily bad but each certainly have their own axe to grind and by combining them I hope to get a fair "average".
Rob

[canonetc]

I've liked the BBC World Service (on channel 28 in the Los Angeles area at various times) because they show footage and stories from the world that we never see on "local" news, as well as deliver "the news" with a certain dispassion; like, "here's what happened", with no jokes or personal commentary. Local news is awful; a car bombing, then a story on the pink poodle in the tree. The main problem with our american local news, is that they don't want us to "get upset". Like Bush said after 911, "KEEP SHOPPING!". Advertisers don't like competition.

Fortunately, many of us do have real feelings for ourselves, for people and the world. And I think many of us do something about it, even in a small way such as warmly saying hi to the neighbor whose having a blue day (with lens filter or without :)). At least the BBC does some things US news does not. And that is one thing I feel Europe in general has going for it; a pride in being aware of more than their own backyard.

God Save the BBC, I mean, the Queen.

C.

[rbiemer]

One basic thing that I think would help our country would be the use of "Peterson Projection" world maps. This is a map that shows the relative sizes of the countries of the world. It's an aproximation(as any flat map of the globe will be) but it shows a rather different view than most world maps.
Rob

[jaapv]

This self-censorship discussion is interesting in the light of the documentary that started this thread: It was made very clear that the journalists and photographers around JFK managed to keep the extent of his back-injury and his extramaritial excursions totally secret from the American public....

[kiev4a]

Rumpole of the Bailey - people keep telling me it is not a comedy, but it makes me laugh.
Red Dwarf
Thin Blue Line
Blackadder, of course
Are You Being Served?
Waiting for God
Fawlty Towers
Keeping Up Appearances
Bless Me, Father
The Young Ones

I never get to see them anymore - sigh. American TV is a load of horse hockey. I end up watching HGTV and Food Network with my wife, and that's wearing a trifle thin.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks


We get a lot of U.K. comedy reruns on PBS on Saturday night. "Keeping up Appearences" is one of the funniest shows on either side of the Atlantic, IMHO.:)

[wlewisiii]

The one I miss most (after seeing it here on PBS) is Blake's 7. It would be the perfect show these days...

William

[phototone]

Rumpole of the Bailey - people keep telling me it is not a comedy, but it makes me laugh.
Red Dwarf
Thin Blue Line
Blackadder, of course
Are You Being Served?
Waiting for God
Fawlty Towers
Keeping Up Appearances
Bless Me, Father
The Young Ones

I never get to see them anymore - sigh. American TV is a load of horse hockey. I end up watching HGTV and Food Network with my wife, and that's wearing a trifle thin.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Many of these, if not all have been, or are being shown on BBC-America, a cable TV channel available on Cable (what else), or Satellite. Also, BBC produced material is shown on AETV and many PBS afiliates. Not to mention the History Channel, and History International. Not all good British programs are BBC, though. It is not difficult to see British TV programming here in the States, we just can't see the current brand new episodes in the same time frame as our British friends.

[bmattock]

Many of these, if not all have been, or are being shown on BBC-America, a cable TV channel available on Cable (what else), or Satellite. Also, BBC produced material is shown on AETV and many PBS afiliates. Not to mention the History Channel, and History International. Not all good British programs are BBC, though. It is not difficult to see British TV programming here in the States, we just can't see the current brand new episodes in the same time frame as our British friends.

I'm in Wilson, North Carolina. I love it here, I'm not complaining, but buddy, we got NASCAR and precious little else. I'm not about to buy a satellite dish just to see John Cleese, but it would be nice to have.

It's like the people who urge me to patronize my local camera shop. The nearest one is 60 miles away, so sadly, no. We don't ALL live in suburbia, dang it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[glenbarn]

Bill,

I too love "Rumpole of the Baily". I have most of the episodes on tape and all of John Mortimer's books.

You may notice a caricature of a familiar fellow as my avatar.

Cheers, Glen Barnett

[glenbarn]

That's "Bailey". (I can spell, but cannot type)

GB

[bmattock]

I'm slightly surprised at Bill's comments about its being against the law to mention the IRA or Sinn Fein, because I certainly never noticed their absence in the media and indeed it would have been impossible NOT to mention them. I mean, take the Birmingham pub bombing (I used to drink there occasionally). They couldn't say, "There has been a bomb attack but we're not allowed to say who by," could they?

Or given Tony Bliar's mania for secrecy and control, maybe that's what we'll be hearing quite soon...

Cheers,

Roger

Roger,

Being of Irish extraction as well as Catholic, we were all 'well aware' that the UK didn't report what was happening in Northern Ireland. Yes, bombings got the news - hard to ignore them. But hamstringing, shooting, and beatings of Catholics in the six counties? Catholic Church burnings? Not on BBC, mate.


http://staff.stir.ac.uk/david.miller/teaching/7613-NI.html

The 1989 Official Secrets Act further narrowed the sphere of debate by making it illegal for anyone associated with intelligence or security matters to speak or be reported in the media. No public interest defence is permissible.


I won't take a stand defending the IRA or Sinn Fein, because I don't defend terrorism, ever. I find it ironic that the RUC was not considered to be a similar terrorist organization, and the fact that the US would not let RUC members into the USA was never reported in the UK.

I remember being shocked when former PM Thatcher stood on the doorstep of 10 Downing with a pair of orphans from Germany and asked the world why there could not be 'One Germany' instead of two. My jaw dropped - when there are two Irelands, she had to ask this about Germany?

Anyway, let's not get at logger-heads over this; I was just saying that the US is not the only government that censors what its citizens can see and hear, and the UK was an example. I don't think anyone can defend that the UK did NOT censor reports out of NI.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[phototone]

I'm in Wilson, North Carolina. I love it here, I'm not complaining, but buddy, we got NASCAR and precious little else. I'm not about to buy a satellite dish just to see John Cleese, but it would be nice to have.

It's like the people who urge me to patronize my local camera shop. The nearest one is 60 miles away, so sadly, no. We don't ALL live in suburbia, dang it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Well you may not live in suburbia, and you may not have a satellite dish, but with a good outside antenna you can probably get at least one PBS station from your state, and these generally run quite a bit of BBC programming. I understand living in remote areas, as although I live in a medium-sized community, there are zero support services for a Commercial Photographer, such as myself, and I have to mail-order all of my supplies, and this would include even common items such as 35mm b/w films, unless I want T-max 400, which the local Wal-Mart has.

[bmattock]

Put an antenna on my house? How quaint! Do people still do that?

Anyway, as it turns out, basic cable via Time Warner has UNC PBS:

http://www.unctv.org/whatson/index.php

I didn't know, because I never watch it. I looked at the lineup (above) and I see why.

"Keeping up Appearances" seems to be the only BBC comedy being show here now, and although I like it, I've seen most or all of them.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[TPPhotog]

This thread has moved on since the original posting about a photography programme ;)

I'm always surprised that people are surprised about censorship :confused: Every country and organization has it's own censorships, even local "independent" radio and newspapers. The only way to really know the truth is to actually be there and understand what is going on or know someone that can give you the facts without bias.

As was said in a film ... If you could see what these eyes have seen .... you'd look as old and balding as I do ( the last part is my own bit) ;)

[bmattock]

"Chew, if only you could see what I've seen with your eyes" - Batty, from the movie Bladerunner (just before he kills him).

I've found that the best answer to censorship is to make yourself aware of news sources from outside your own country. Listen to them all, filter, and make your own decisions. The truth is usually to be found somewhere in the mix and between the extremes.

The printing press was controlled by the early Church because it gave men the means of reading/interpreting/understanding the Bible without having to be told what it said and meant and as such, private printing was heavily discouraged and licensed.

Once that was done, former communist dicatators had to fight samizdat printers who put counter-agit-prop out to counter government agit-prop. Pirate radio stations and government funded experinments like VoA.

Now, hardline governments try to censor the Internet. But a free people have access to ideas, news, and opinions from all over and can't be easily lied to - unless they close their eyes and ears and let it happen.

The solution? Don't shut down - open up.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[TPPhotog]

Bill ... yep you identified the line, the cigar is yours :D

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Bill,

Thought you were Welsh, boyo?

BBC and Loyalist -- well, that's hardly forbidding mention of the IRA and Sinn Fein, is it? More a question of going easy on the Orangemen. I fully accept your point about MUCH poorer coverage of anti-loyalist atrocities on Auntie (the Beeb), but equally, I might unkindlly suspect disproportionately high coverage in the US media as a result of not-very-well-informed Green supporters putting their oar in.

I remember drinking in McSorley's in NYC in '81 with a load of charming fellows (no irony -- we became the best of friends) who didn't actually realize there were two sides to the argument: as far as they knew it was the Wicked British oppressing the Noble Irish for no apparent reason, which was how the IRA managed to raise so much money in the USA. They were much interested to learn about Loyalists.

I'm not defending the Settlements for an instant, but you need to know a bit of Irish history before you advocate simplistic solutions, which I fear were popular among some New York Irish. This is NOT a personal attack, or a suggestion that you support simplistic solutions (even though you do support Dubbya...) just observations about drinking with fellow Celts in the 1980s.

Incidentally, you said elsewhere that I get up your sleeve. Is this a euphemism, or am I losing my touch?

Finally, at my suggestion, the VIth form common room (17-19 years old) at my old school subscribed to both the North Vietnam Peace News and the British Union of Fascists newsletter. It was an interesting way of seeing how the same news story could be reported, shall we say, selectively.

Cheers,

Roger

[Poptart]

I always think "Boring British Crap" when I see BBC. But maybe that's just me.
The good stuff, like Fawlty Towers, was done independently and had little to do with the suits at the company.

[peter_n]

The beeb is on the telly here, its called "BBC America". In my area its about #150 on the cable system. Not a bad channel but they don't have footy on it. :(

[djon]

I think David Hume Kennerly was more responsible for promoting Kennedy than was anybody else...virtually lived in the White House.

General Douglas McArthur traveled with three photographers (at least) and a makeup artist, according to one of the photographers that traveled with him, David Lomasney.