What if.. Leica Changed the way....

arbib

arbib

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You loaded film. By having a model, Lets say M7h, That had a hinged back. You know, the type of back that is on nearly every SLR/DSLR and many RF..
Not to start a "But it won't be Leica" war, or anything like that. I had a M5 many years ago.

And the camera was/is a fine machine and handled great..until I needed to changed film. Could not get used to the bottom load hinged plate combo. Seemed out of touch with the "Fast handling" RF thing. It Did handle fast while taking pictures,. And the cleaver Exposure readout was quick too. Just changing film seemed out of step with "quickness" on this part.
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With a Hinged back, wouldn't be faster and less cumbersome to not have to find a pocket to put the bottom in while you change film. Than get the bottom out from your pocket to close the camera back up?? Just asking.... Don't get all "Leica Supper ego on me...just look at the logic for a moment..

Would a Leica M Handle faster for loading film with a hinged back ???? And wouldn't a minute saved in film loading afford you a shot missed otherwise ??

Can you REALY load a Leica M "Faster" than a hinged back camera ?? We don't always need speed, understood. But At times. it makes or brakes an opportunity.

As an option, wouldn't be nice to have a "Leica M" with this feature ?? You do have a large financial investment it the stuff. Why get out your Bessa, when you could shoot "Leica all the way" ??
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Would you buy a Leica M with a hinged back if it were available in each model. So you could pick the model you wanted with a hinged back ??

Just a thought I was having today, that's all. :)
 
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I owned a nice Leica IIIc but sold it because of the number of rolls of film I messed up because of its bottom feeding method. I know, blame to owner, and I adher to that, but I just did not want to spend the time to learn another method that others seem to have left behind some time ago. I don't know if I have flatness problems, but on enlargement up to 11x14, sorry I don't know the Brit sizes, I see no problems at all with the Bessa R and the FSU cameras I've owned. Too much of a bother, mho only!
Would I consider a Leica with a hinged back? Yes, if the price came down a bit.
 
The price for a new camera, slow shutter speed and bottom loading were the three main reasons I bought a Zeiss Ikon M instead of a Leica. If the price for a new Leica had been the same as the ZI, I would have not bought the Leica due to the bottom loading.

I plan to buy a R4M this in the next 12-18 months. I will not buy a used Leica because of the bottom loading. This is a shame because I'm tempted to try a M3.

Now, I know many Leica owners are very good at bottom loading and it does not bother them at all. But for me it is an out-dated tradition. I don't need any more hassles.

willie
 
What kind of D-SLR does "Arbib" have? Why would it have a hinged back???

There must be few photographic questions that have used up more ink than loading an RF Leica. And the number of people who have contributed their "methods" is right up there, too. I once read some place about a guy who cliamed he could do it in the dark. Now, that is talent!!

I have an M4-2, my one and only foray into the land of Leica. Yes, it's different from any of my other cameras, but I've never been all that bothered about its idiosynchracies, if that's what they are. A Leica is a Leica is a Leica. How many photojournalists covered wars with them? And that went on long before there were M series with the 'back door'. A certain famous French photographer* used little else, so surely we mere mortals can learn to get along with them.

*H. C-B
 
SDK said:
I'd be more interested in faster shutter speeds.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree. with shutter going as high as 1/8000s, A Leica with a 1/2000, or 1/4000 seems reasonable.

I don't know if current Leica's have medal or cloth shutters. But if were a medal shutter, shurley they get a faster top speed

And Faster Flash Sync too. 1/60s Come On !!!

For a couple grand, I would expect a more up to date feature set.

Still great camera's. just a too antiquated for what is available in engineering and quality.

POINT: My dad many years ago owned a 1969 Caddy. years later, he had to rent a car while his Mercedes was in the shop. The car was a 1984 Caddy. THE Dash Board set up---speedometer, and such were EXACT duplicates of the 1969 Caddy!! Even though Hugh quality and technical improvements had been made in these areas in other cars from GMC. WHY.... The manufacturing end had been paid for --RD, and equipment --. and they where afraid the term buyer base would not accept change, and buy elsewhere. (This WAS their premier Car after all).

I wander what would happen if Leica introduced a Leica M with Flash Sync of 1/250s, Hinged back, top shutter speed of 1/4000s. For starters. Would "Loyal" Leica Phillie's buy one ?? and say 'Thank God Leica finally "Updated" these great camera's to more modern feature set !

Would the long term buyers base still keep Leica Dear ?? or go elsewhere?? (there is no elsewhere ...I know that) It is lonely at the top....(can I say about Leica's..Alpa says that too....Maybe it is not so lonely at the top :D )
 
Because then, you'd have an M7 that's an awful lot like...my Konica Hexar RFs. ;)

Of course, the official story surrounds the pressure-plate design of Leica's Ms, and the desire on Leica's part for excruciatingly consistent film-flatness (yeah, and there was also Contax' RTS III, but that was another scary obsession). I grok some of Leica's reasoning here, even though (1) their R8/9 SLRs, as well as their predecessors, seem to have gotten on just fine with hinged backs; and (2) I'm not entirtly convinced a hinged back would scuttle performance. One of the best pressure plates I've seen on an camera was in my very first Canon F-1 (first generation). Of course, RFs aren't SLRs, but near as I can tell, having a hinged back doesn't seem be a problem with either of my HRFs.


- Barrett
 
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All I can say is that I just happened to see, in the same 24-hour period, some video of Ricky Jay manipulating cards and some video of Annie Leibovitz loading her M6 (around minute 35 of the recent "American Masters" documentary). I can't say which impressed me more.
 
dll927 said:
What kind of D-SLR does "Arbib" have? Why would it have a hinged back???

*H. C-B
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That made me laugh :D . You are right. just a bad editting job on my part...Thanks for pointing that out.
 
This discussion would have made more sense in 1997. That ship has sailed.
 
Nick R. said:
This discussion would have made more sense in 1997. That ship has sailed.
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Why 1997 ??

any Leica history in '97 about a possible hinged back release?

or are you used to the bottom load and happy with a 1930's hold over design. No war... just curious here.. is there a valid technical reason now?? maybe there was 50 years ago when hinged back were not popular yet. And maybe some companies had problems developing a light tight one that held the film flat. But Leica has no such problems, NONE of the R camera's have a bottom load. And there were no complaints on lack of film flatness or light leaks.

I think Leica is like the OLD GMC in my example. They are afraid to lose a long customer base with such a change. I say HUG WASH !!!!. Many old timers would love a Hinged back Leica. And since Leica is not meeting the need. Zeiss Ikon IS !! for 1/2 the price of a any Leica Body available today.

Question?

How many Old Timer Leica owners also own a Zeiss Ikon body ??

Because of the hinged back ??

I too would buy a NEW ZI over a used M6 any day.
 
Nick R. said:
This discussion would have made more sense in 1997. That ship has sailed.
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arbib said:
Why 1997 ??

any Leica history in '97 about a possible hinged back release?
Click to expand...
In fact, Leica had a prototype (actually something of a Leica/Minolta hybrid) camera with both vertical-travel shutter and hinged back some years before '97. As sharp-eyed RFf folk (including me) know, one of what are supposed to be three existing prototypes, was recently sold on the 'Bay for something in the vicinity of $30.000. So this matter had crossed Wetzlar's/Solms' collective mind at least once. WHy they didn't go for it is anyone's guess.

or are you used to the bottom load and happy with a 1930's hold over design. No war... just curious here.. is there a valid technical reason now?? maybe there was 50 years ago when hinged back were not popular yet. And maybe some companies had problems developing a light tight one that held the film flat. But Leica has no such problems, NONE of the R camera's have a bottom load. And there were no complaints on lack of film flatness or light leaks.
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Since my previous post in this thread, I've been thinking about this one. I do think Leica has one or two valid reasons – or excuses, if you prefer – for sticking doggedly with the bottom-load option, from a perhaps-arcane technical standpoint. (The heavily-critiqued usual "reason" is lack of a reason to retool for a different design, but I imagine the guts of an M4 and M7 aren't exactly identical). In the case of the M8, the point is rather moot; yes, you still have to load the card from the bottom (might even be a Solms inside-joke in that), but it's not a biggie if you stick a 2 or 4GB card in.

But in the end, either you want an M or you don't. The film-loading regimen is simply part of the package. And, there are M-mount alternatives if that doesn't suit.


- Barrett
 
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My point is that at this time who cares if Leica puts a hinged back on a film camera. The interest just isn't there. Most people who use Leica are content with loading as is. The few who aren't don't amount to much in this digital age. Look at the differential on the official Leica site between film and digital posts.

The year 1997 is just a rhetorical device being as this is 2007. That's all.
 
Loading a SM leica is a painful experience for me but I put up with it because I like the old stuff. The M4 is a different story and is just a little less convenient than my Nikons with a hinged back. Would I buy a new Leica M with hinged back, faster shutter and other improvements? No, I would not buy a new Leica film camera period, with or without improvements. Way too much coin for me. If I buy new it will be a digital something or other.

Bob
 
Months ago, when the speculation on the M8 started, I posted the the new Leica Digital would probably require you to remove the bottom plate to to insert the memory card and battery.

I thought that I was being sarcastic. I had no idea that I was being prophetic.

If they offered a hinged back they would no longer consider it an "M".
 
Ever had deteriorating foam seals or a light leak with a Leica?

To me this is the best reason for the bottom loading. It's really not that hard at least on my M4-P and since at some point every other camera I've had had an issue at some point with light seals (easily fixed but annoying when you discover it), I'm very happy not to think about it again or deal with gooey foam. Bottom loading is a slightly slower but better and more durable design. It's maybe a second or two slower than a hinged back when you get the hang of it really not even worth mentioning.
 
dll927 said:
How many photojournalists covered wars with them? And that went on long before there were M series with the 'back door'.
Click to expand...

And how many photojournalists switched to those newly fangled Nikon contraptions as soon as they where available?
 
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