jett
Well-known
OK so I have Leica M2/M3 for normal lens shooting but now I want to go 21 or 24/25. I figured that I would dedicate a single body to use primarily or exclusively with wide angle lenses becaus I dislike the idea of adding a viewfinder for whenever I want to go wide. I feel that I would lose it.
Leica LTM:
Excellent build, body shape, and it looks nice (matches my M's). Slower to change shutter speeds and more difficult to load. This camera is probably the quietest.
Leica CL:
Build is probably inferior to the Leica LTM but the ergonomics are probably quicker (shutter speeds and film loading). It might feel small in my hand.
Bessa R4M:
Build is probably inferior to both (I'm really not sure, I hate to make statements like this), but the ergonomics is probably the best. The size is good too. I have no need for an external viewfinder.
I have no experience with any of these and I feel that bottom loading is something I can get used to. I have no wide angle lenses either but I'm thinking about the CV ones. I can go LTM or M so the mount doesn't matter so much. The meters for the CL and R4M don't mean much to me. I'm mostly interested in a 21mm.
Leica LTM:
Excellent build, body shape, and it looks nice (matches my M's). Slower to change shutter speeds and more difficult to load. This camera is probably the quietest.
Leica CL:
Build is probably inferior to the Leica LTM but the ergonomics are probably quicker (shutter speeds and film loading). It might feel small in my hand.
Bessa R4M:
Build is probably inferior to both (I'm really not sure, I hate to make statements like this), but the ergonomics is probably the best. The size is good too. I have no need for an external viewfinder.
I have no experience with any of these and I feel that bottom loading is something I can get used to. I have no wide angle lenses either but I'm thinking about the CV ones. I can go LTM or M so the mount doesn't matter so much. The meters for the CL and R4M don't mean much to me. I'm mostly interested in a 21mm.
Are you planning to zone focus or use the rangefinder?
If you can load an M2/M3, loading an LTM is pretty much the same except the leader needs to be pre-cut.
If you can load an M2/M3, loading an LTM is pretty much the same except the leader needs to be pre-cut.
back alley
IMAGES
r4m...great finder, excellent camera body...very solid
jett
Well-known
I don't have much experience with these lenses but I figured that I would zone focus more often than not. Given rangefinder limitations in minimum close focus distances and imprecise framing, I can't really imagine the need to focus because it would only be beneficial at wide apertures and close distances where the DOF might matter.
I figured I'd go with slower lenses because they're smaller and more affordable.
The Leica LTM bodies seems to be a little more fitting if I wanted only one wide angle although the R4 gives me more flexibility (like if I wanted to go 21mm/28mm) and ofcourse the ability to focus (which is always a plus).
I figured I'd go with slower lenses because they're smaller and more affordable.
The Leica LTM bodies seems to be a little more fitting if I wanted only one wide angle although the R4 gives me more flexibility (like if I wanted to go 21mm/28mm) and ofcourse the ability to focus (which is always a plus).
OK then that means the Barnack squinty rangefinder/viewfinder is a non-issue. Changing shutter speeds shouldn't be much of an issue, it's a tad slower, but I don't guess you're worried about speed here. If you are using a hand held meter, that will be your speed limit.
So it comes down more to aethetics and price. CLs with dead meters pop up now and again here, for not much money. Barnacks can be fun cameras but most that are sold thru the usual used outlet haven't been used in ages and need CLAs and/or shutter curtains, but they are often sold in the classifieds here, ready to shoot.
No experience with a Bessa.
Good luck!
So it comes down more to aethetics and price. CLs with dead meters pop up now and again here, for not much money. Barnacks can be fun cameras but most that are sold thru the usual used outlet haven't been used in ages and need CLAs and/or shutter curtains, but they are often sold in the classifieds here, ready to shoot.
No experience with a Bessa.
Good luck!
mrisney
Well-known
How about including the MDA/MD-2 with the 15mm Heliar.
FrankS
Registered User
Fuchs
Well-known
If you want to scale focus, an LTM or an MDA/MD2 with external finders, as suggested,m will work best. Take into account the LTM will only take LTM lenses, in practice almost only the Voigtländer UWA's
If not, the finder on the R4M/R4A is absolutely stunning, and you can use it with any LTM or M mount lenses. When I had one, the Elmarit 21 saw new life as using hyperfocal works, but an accurately focused 21mm can give some interesting results even with huge dof.
If not, the finder on the R4M/R4A is absolutely stunning, and you can use it with any LTM or M mount lenses. When I had one, the Elmarit 21 saw new life as using hyperfocal works, but an accurately focused 21mm can give some interesting results even with huge dof.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Not that I don't like either the M4-2 or M9, but this is so handy and sweet.
fuji645
Established
Neither--my favorite for 35mm is a 19mm 3.5 Canon on a Canon EF. Not the sharpest or the best contrast but I love the unusual perspective and moderate distortion. I also love my 45mm 2.8 mounted on a Mamiya 645. But to stay within the rules of this thread, my IIIc lives with a 35mm Summaron and it's a great fast, no nonsense shooter. I rarely use the aux 35mm finder but usually shoot from the hip. Works for me.
GaryLH
Mentor
Cl
Cl
CL w/o a doubt. My favorite two lens combo is w/ CL. 21/40..
Gary
Cl
CL w/o a doubt. My favorite two lens combo is w/ CL. 21/40..
Gary
PatrickCheung
Well-known
I bought a Zorki 1 just to use my wide angle lenses on. Scale focus, small body... coat pocketable with my lenses... pretty sweet combo! I wanted a camera that looked like my IIf, but wasn't as expensive as my IIf so I can just throw it in my bag/pocket and not worry so much about it getting damaged.
Of course... build quality isn't quite Barnack Leica, but that's fine... as I only paid about 1/5th the Barnack price
If it ever breaks... it's another $60 for another Zorki... or $60 for Yuri from Fedka to get it working again. Pretty sweet huh?
Of course... build quality isn't quite Barnack Leica, but that's fine... as I only paid about 1/5th the Barnack price
If it ever breaks... it's another $60 for another Zorki... or $60 for Yuri from Fedka to get it working again. Pretty sweet huh?
mrisney
Well-known
With the 15mm I am not sure it matters which body. By setting the aperture to f/8 and the distance scale to 1 meter,
most everything will be in focus. Frame with an external viewfinder.
Even if you actually want to do some critical focusing, again it would not matter which body,
since you will frame with the external finder anyway.
If you are considering the 21mm, (the forthcoming 21mm 1.8 Ultron sounds fantastic BTW), then I would consider the R4A, as it has built in
frame lines, 1.1, and AE to boot, although metering with ultra wide can be a bit tricky metering in general I suppose.
My own personal rf journey started with an M4-P, and a 40mm Nokton classic, I then started lusting after an affordable 21mm, loved the Contax G2 with
and external finder, for about 2 years, but always wanted more, more, hah.
The 16mm f/8 Hologon was too exotic, too expensive to be had (for what it is).
So now I am finding that a MD-2 with the 15mm Heliar, is satisfying my cravings for wide-wide (super wide) street shooter.
As mentioned, with a viewfinder-less setup, set the focusing at 1 meter, and treat it as a point and shoot.
Good luck with whatever you choose, let us see your pics when you arrive with what works for you
most everything will be in focus. Frame with an external viewfinder.
Even if you actually want to do some critical focusing, again it would not matter which body,
since you will frame with the external finder anyway.
If you are considering the 21mm, (the forthcoming 21mm 1.8 Ultron sounds fantastic BTW), then I would consider the R4A, as it has built in
frame lines, 1.1, and AE to boot, although metering with ultra wide can be a bit tricky metering in general I suppose.
My own personal rf journey started with an M4-P, and a 40mm Nokton classic, I then started lusting after an affordable 21mm, loved the Contax G2 with
and external finder, for about 2 years, but always wanted more, more, hah.
The 16mm f/8 Hologon was too exotic, too expensive to be had (for what it is).
So now I am finding that a MD-2 with the 15mm Heliar, is satisfying my cravings for wide-wide (super wide) street shooter.
As mentioned, with a viewfinder-less setup, set the focusing at 1 meter, and treat it as a point and shoot.
Good luck with whatever you choose, let us see your pics when you arrive with what works for you
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The R4M - no question. After decades focussing and having to shift the eye to the finder or knocking the finder off - chasing them down the street - having one slip down a street drain etc, etc - The R4M is perfect.
As for build quality - I have had mine since it came out and it is always coming along - either in the shoulder bag or in my hand. Never missed a beat!
As for build quality - I have had mine since it came out and it is always coming along - either in the shoulder bag or in my hand. Never missed a beat!
biomed
Mentor
DITTO! It's my favorite film camera.
This is what the R4whatever was made for, and it's uniquely great for the 21-50mm range. Mine is the R4A.
Peter_S
Peter_S
I have a similar idea as you, and will set my CL up with a C-Biogon 4.5/21mm as dedicated 21mm shooter. I mainly use 50mm on my other M and 21mm is my 2nd choice, so the small CL is ideal.
If I was more serious about 21mm, however, and had the funds - my clear choice would be Contax G2 with the 21mm Biogon. I had the G2 and the 21mm is what I miss mostly. What a lens! It has the advantage that you can compose with the 21mm viewfinder and AF will focus. That is nice when you do not want to rely on hyperfocal. The G2 is a swift, lovely camera and works really well with the 21mm.
Best,
Peter
If I was more serious about 21mm, however, and had the funds - my clear choice would be Contax G2 with the 21mm Biogon. I had the G2 and the 21mm is what I miss mostly. What a lens! It has the advantage that you can compose with the 21mm viewfinder and AF will focus. That is nice when you do not want to rely on hyperfocal. The G2 is a swift, lovely camera and works really well with the 21mm.
Best,
Peter